Serious problem with JC Penney Optical eyeglasses

[Ron M.]

My wife and I are having a really bad problem with some new glasses we
ordered from JC Penney Optical. We got them there because we'd been
ripped off and insulted by a rude Lenscrafters person, and also
because JCP had them for 50%. In addition, a relative worked there and
got us another 20% off.

To be specific, both glasses, mine and hers, were made EXACTLY
according to the optometrist's prescription. They were checked several
times, by two different opticians and by the optometrist, and all
three said they were made perfectly.

The problem is that our vision is actually worse with the new glasses.
For example, we stuck a printout of some text on the refrigerator
door. With our old glasses, we could read it 7-8 feet away. With the
new ones, we both had to come up to 4-5 feet. We've made numerous
other observations that were similar, or worse. Driving with them is
especially stressful: you can't even read a street sign until you're
right on top of it, and everything looks slightly "blurry."

Again, the problem is identical in both my and her glasses.

This is supposed to be some superhard, scratch-resistant polycarbonate
lens of some kind. My optometrist was baffled, and suggested that
perhaps there's some kind of distortion in the lens material.

Can anyone here offer any kind of advice, hypothesis, feedback, or
perhaps report a similar experience with JCP Optical? Having to get a
full refund on these, and starting all over somewhere else, is going
to be a huge, huge hassle.

Thanks,
Ron M.

[Mark A]

Post by Ron M.
My wife and I are having a really bad problem with some new glasses we
ordered from JC Penney Optical. We got them there because we'd been
ripped off and insulted by a rude Lenscrafters person, and also
because JCP had them for 50%. In addition, a relative worked there and
got us another 20% off.
To be specific, both glasses, mine and hers, were made EXACTLY
according to the optometrist's prescription. They were checked several
times, by two different opticians and by the optometrist, and all
three said they were made perfectly.
The problem is that our vision is actually worse with the new glasses.
For example, we stuck a printout of some text on the refrigerator
door. With our old glasses, we could read it 7-8 feet away. With the
new ones, we both had to come up to 4-5 feet. We've made numerous
other observations that were similar, or worse. Driving with them is
especially stressful: you can't even read a street sign until you're
right on top of it, and everything looks slightly "blurry."
Again, the problem is identical in both my and her glasses.
This is supposed to be some superhard, scratch-resistant polycarbonate
lens of some kind. My optometrist was baffled, and suggested that
perhaps there's some kind of distortion in the lens material.
Can anyone here offer any kind of advice, hypothesis, feedback, or
perhaps report a similar experience with JCP Optical? Having to get a
full refund on these, and starting all over somewhere else, is going
to be a huge, huge hassle.
Thanks,
Ron M.

First of all, polycarbonate is not particularly scratch resistant. It
scratches easier than most other lens, even when it has a scratch resistant
coating on it. However polycarb has much better impact resistance and
tensile strength almost all other lenses (although Trivex is about the same)
and is often used where safety is an important consideration (used when
playing sports, in a workshop or lab).

But polycarb has just about the worst optical qualities of any lens on the
market. This is especially true if the lens is relatively high in power. You
may be better off without polycarb. The optical quality is measured as abbe
value, the higher the better. Polycarb has an abbe value of 30.

You didn't say what your Rx is, whether you have progressives or single
vision, or what brand/material your old lenses are. Please get this
information and post it. If you don't know what the old lens is, take it to
Wal-Mart optical or other optician and see if they can id the lens. You
should also post the Rx of the old lens.

Most of the large chains, such as LensCrafters and JC Penny typically use
mid-level quality lens, which can be a problem for certain prescriptions.
Most independent opticians and some chains like Wal-Mart use better quality
brands and models and will always tell you exactly what brand/model you are
getting (unlike most of the chains which put their own brand name on the
lens).

If you can't see clearly, make sure you take them back during the warranty
return period. Whether you get new ones made at JC Penny or somewhere else,
it certainly appears that you need to send them back.

[Ron M.]

Post by Mark A

Post by Ron M.
My wife and I are having a really bad problem with some new glasses we
ordered from JC Penney Optical. We got them there because we'd been
ripped off and insulted by a rude Lenscrafters person, and also
because JCP had them for 50%. In addition, a relative worked there and
got us another 20% off.
To be specific, both glasses, mine and hers, were made EXACTLY
according to the optometrist's prescription. They were checked several
times, by two different opticians and by the optometrist, and all
three said they were made perfectly.
The problem is that our vision is actually worse with the new glasses.
For example, we stuck a printout of some text on the refrigerator
door. With our old glasses, we could read it 7-8 feet away. With the
new ones, we both had to come up to 4-5 feet. We've made numerous
other observations that were similar, or worse. Driving with them is
especially stressful: you can't even read a street sign until you're
right on top of it, and everything looks slightly "blurry."
Again, the problem is identical in both my and her glasses.
This is supposed to be some superhard, scratch-resistant polycarbonate
lens of some kind. My optometrist was baffled, and suggested that
perhaps there's some kind of distortion in the lens material.
Can anyone here offer any kind of advice, hypothesis, feedback, or
perhaps report a similar experience with JCP Optical? Having to get a
full refund on these, and starting all over somewhere else, is going
to be a huge, huge hassle.
Thanks,
Ron M.

First of all, polycarbonate is not particularly scratch resistant. It
scratches easier than most other lens, even when it has a scratch resistant
coating on it. However polycarb has much better impact resistance and
tensile strength almost all other lenses (although Trivex is about the same)
and is often used where safety is an important consideration (used when
playing sports, in a workshop or lab).
But polycarb has just about the worst optical qualities of any lens on the
market. This is especially true if the lens is relatively high in power. You
may be better off without polycarb. The optical quality is measured as abbe
value, the higher the better. Polycarb has an abbe value of 30.

So what is 30? Is that high, or low, or what? What's the normal range?

Post by Mark A
You didn't say what your Rx is, whether you have progressives or single
vision, or what brand/material your old lenses are. Please get this
information and post it.

I apologize. I don't have it right here, but mine is about -5.75
diopters (I'm nearsighted) with a moderate amount of astigmatism as
well. The glasses, just like the old ones, are bifocals.

My wife's are much simpler - I think -.325 diopters, something like
that, with no astigmatism. Bifocals.

The old glasses are from Lenscrafters - they're also polycarbonate, I
think. They're the "Featherwates" and have some kind of
scratch-resistant coating. So are hers.

Ron M.

If you don't know what the old lens is, take it to

Post by Mark A
Wal-Mart optical or other optician and see if they can id the lens. You
should also post the Rx of the old lens.
Most of the large chains, such as LensCrafters and JC Penny typically use
mid-level quality lens, which can be a problem for certain prescriptions.
Most independent opticians and some chains like Wal-Mart use better quality
brands and models and will always tell you exactly what brand/model you are
getting (unlike most of the chains which put their own brand name on the
lens).
If you can't see clearly, make sure you take them back during the warranty
return period. Whether you get new ones made at JC Penny or somewhere else,
it certainly appears that you need to send them back.

[Mark A]

Post by Ron M.

Post by Mark A
But polycarb has just about the worst optical qualities of any lens on the
market. This is especially true if the lens is relatively high in power. You
may be better off without polycarb. The optical quality is measured as abbe
value, the higher the better. Polycarb has an abbe value of 30.

So what is 30? Is that high, or low, or what? What's the normal range?

Ron, if you read my comments above, I said the higher the better when
comparing abbe value and that polycarb has the worst of just about any lens
material.

Post by Ron M.

Post by Mark A
You didn't say what your Rx is, whether you have progressives or single
vision, or what brand/material your old lenses are. Please get this
information and post it.

I apologize. I don't have it right here, but mine is about -5.75
diopters (I'm nearsighted) with a moderate amount of astigmatism as
well. The glasses, just like the old ones, are bifocals.
My wife's are much simpler - I think -.325 diopters, something like
that, with no astigmatism. Bifocals.
The old glasses are from Lenscrafters - they're also polycarbonate, I
think. They're the "Featherwates" and have some kind of
scratch-resistant coating. So are hers.
Ron M.

Do you have progressives (no-line bifocals)? You also neglected to state the
add power (reading addition power). You also neglected to state the
prescription of your old glasses. Polycarb is not particularly good in terms
of optical quality, but it can be made worse by a mediocre progressive lens
design such as I would expect from JC Penny.

If you have progressive lenses, you may have a poor fitting, such as bad
fitting height or bad pupil distance. These are very common mistakes that
occur with progressives. Try moving the frame around on your face (up, down
, sideways) and see if that makes a difference. If this the problem, have
them re-fit and remake the lens (although I would go elsewhere get a better
quality lens design than you can get at JC Penny).

Assuming that you new prescription is correct, I would recommend you go to
Wal-Mart or an independent optician and get some lenses using Spectralite or
1.60 plastic from a name brand lens manufacturer. Be sure to discuss the
problem with your optician, they may have other ideas on lenses.

[Ron M.]

Post by Mark A

Post by Ron M.

Post by Mark A
You didn't say what your Rx is, whether you have progressives or single
vision, or what brand/material your old lenses are. Please get this
information and post it.

I apologize. I don't have it right here, but mine is about -5.75
diopters (I'm nearsighted) with a moderate amount of astigmatism as
well. The glasses, just like the old ones, are bifocals.
My wife's are much simpler - I think -.325 diopters, something like
that, with no astigmatism. Bifocals.
The old glasses are from Lenscrafters - they're also polycarbonate, I
think. They're the "Featherwates" and have some kind of
scratch-resistant coating. So are hers.
Ron M.

Do you have progressives (no-line bifocals)? You also neglected to state the
add power (reading addition power).

Nope, these aren't progressives, they're plain vanilla bifocals. So
are my wife's. The problem occurs all over the entire area of the
"non-bifocal" part of the lens.

The prescription was double checked by both the optometrist and the
optician. In fact, my optometrist redid my entire exam twice, and both
times came up with the exact same prescription. I have a lot of faith
in him, he's a very well-known, highly regarded optometrist who works
with a top eye surgeon, he's not some "strip mall optometrist."

I think it's beyond question that the problem is in the material.

Ron M.

You also neglected to state the

Post by Mark A
prescription of your old glasses. Polycarb is not particularly good in terms
of optical quality, but it can be made worse by a mediocre progressive lens
design such as I would expect from JC Penny.
If you have progressive lenses, you may have a poor fitting, such as bad
fitting height or bad pupil distance. These are very common mistakes that
occur with progressives. Try moving the frame around on your face (up, down
, sideways) and see if that makes a difference. If this the problem, have
them re-fit and remake the lens (although I would go elsewhere get a better
quality lens design than you can get at JC Penny).
Assuming that you new prescription is correct, I would recommend you go to
Wal-Mart or an independent optician and get some lenses using Spectralite or
1.60 plastic from a name brand lens manufacturer. Be sure to discuss the
problem with your optician, they may have other ideas on lenses.

[Robert Martellaro]

Post by Ron M.

Post by Mark A

Post by Ron M.

Post by Mark A
You didn't say what your Rx is, whether you have progressives or single
vision, or what brand/material your old lenses are. Please get this
information and post it.

I apologize. I don't have it right here, but mine is about -5.75
diopters (I'm nearsighted) with a moderate amount of astigmatism as
well. The glasses, just like the old ones, are bifocals.
My wife's are much simpler - I think -.325 diopters, something like
that, with no astigmatism. Bifocals.
The old glasses are from Lenscrafters - they're also polycarbonate, I
think. They're the "Featherwates" and have some kind of
scratch-resistant coating. So are hers.
Ron M.

Do you have progressives (no-line bifocals)? You also neglected to state the
add power (reading addition power).

Nope, these aren't progressives, they're plain vanilla bifocals. So
are my wife's. The problem occurs all over the entire area of the
"non-bifocal" part of the lens.
The prescription was double checked by both the optometrist and the
optician. In fact, my optometrist redid my entire exam twice, and both
times came up with the exact same prescription. I have a lot of faith
in him, he's a very well-known, highly regarded optometrist who works
with a top eye surgeon, he's not some "strip mall optometrist."
I think it's beyond question that the problem is in the material.
Ron M.

Ron,

The lens material just won't cause the symptoms you have described. To be sure,
a poorly fitted lens (lenses too far from the eyes with insufficient panto or
lens tilt), a flaw at the optical center, or a coating overrun above the seg may
be a factor, it sounds like you are "under minused" as Mike described. The only
thing I would add to Mike's recommendation is to ask the doctor to perform a dry
(without cycloplegics) refraction. If you post your old and new Rx we can more
or less confirm our suspicions.

Hope this helps

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
***@execpc.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman

[Robert Martellaro]

Post by Ron M.

Post by Mark A

Post by Ron M.
My wife and I are having a really bad problem with some new glasses we
ordered from JC Penney Optical. We got them there because we'd been
ripped off and insulted by a rude Lenscrafters person, and also
because JCP had them for 50%. In addition, a relative worked there and
got us another 20% off.
To be specific, both glasses, mine and hers, were made EXACTLY
according to the optometrist's prescription. They were checked several
times, by two different opticians and by the optometrist, and all
three said they were made perfectly.
The problem is that our vision is actually worse with the new glasses.
For example, we stuck a printout of some text on the refrigerator
door. With our old glasses, we could read it 7-8 feet away. With the
new ones, we both had to come up to 4-5 feet. We've made numerous
other observations that were similar, or worse. Driving with them is
especially stressful: you can't even read a street sign until you're
right on top of it, and everything looks slightly "blurry."
Again, the problem is identical in both my and her glasses.
This is supposed to be some superhard, scratch-resistant polycarbonate
lens of some kind. My optometrist was baffled, and suggested that
perhaps there's some kind of distortion in the lens material.
Can anyone here offer any kind of advice, hypothesis, feedback, or
perhaps report a similar experience with JCP Optical? Having to get a
full refund on these, and starting all over somewhere else, is going
to be a huge, huge hassle.
Thanks,
Ron M.

First of all, polycarbonate is not particularly scratch resistant. It
scratches easier than most other lens, even when it has a scratch resistant
coating on it. However polycarb has much better impact resistance and
tensile strength almost all other lenses (although Trivex is about the same)
and is often used where safety is an important consideration (used when
playing sports, in a workshop or lab).
But polycarb has just about the worst optical qualities of any lens on the
market. This is especially true if the lens is relatively high in power. You
may be better off without polycarb. The optical quality is measured as abbe
value, the higher the better. Polycarb has an abbe value of 30.

So what is 30? Is that high, or low, or what? What's the normal range?

Post by Mark A
You didn't say what your Rx is, whether you have progressives or single
vision, or what brand/material your old lenses are. Please get this
information and post it.

I apologize. I don't have it right here, but mine is about -5.75
diopters (I'm nearsighted) with a moderate amount of astigmatism as
well. The glasses, just like the old ones, are bifocals.

Ron,

Are these bifocals "with a line", or progressive addition lenses "without a
line"?


Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
***@execpc.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman

[Ron M.]

Post by Robert Martellaro
Are these bifocals "with a line", or progressive addition lenses "without a
line"?

Bifocals with a line.

Here are our prescriptions (just what it says on the little slip)

Mine:
O.D. sphere -4.75 cylinder -50 axis 025
O.S. sphere -4.25 cylinder -1.00 axis 088

and over towards the right, it looks like it goes across both lines,
under "ADD" it says "+1.75

Then P.D. is 66/63

Hers:
O.D. sphere -2.00 cylinder.. I can't read it, it looks like "8m"
axis is blank
O.S. sphere -1.50 cylinder -50 axis 047

Then it says ADD +1.25

P.D. 61/58
----------------

Well, yesterday I talked on the phone with the national Customer
Relations manager for US Vision about this. He was really nice, and
said some people have this kind of problem with polycarbonate lenses.
He is going to report this to the Texas state manager, and he is also
going to call the optical shop and give them instructions. He wants
us to go back in and have mine re-made with Spectralite, and hers
remade with CR39.

So I'm doing that this morning; I'm leaving in about an hour. What
do you think about the above, while we're waiting? At any rate, I'll
have the glasses back in a week or 10 days, and will let you know how
it comes out.

Ron M.

[Mark A]

Post by Ron M.
Well, yesterday I talked on the phone with the national Customer
Relations manager for US Vision about this. He was really nice, and
said some people have this kind of problem with polycarbonate lenses.
He is going to report this to the Texas state manager, and he is also
going to call the optical shop and give them instructions. He wants
us to go back in and have mine re-made with Spectralite, and hers
remade with CR39.
So I'm doing that this morning; I'm leaving in about an hour. What
do you think about the above, while we're waiting? At any rate, I'll
have the glasses back in a week or 10 days, and will let you know how
it comes out.
Ron M.

Spectralite definitely has better optics than polycarb. It is a little
thicker than polycarb, and therefore heavier, but should not be a big
problem with your Rx. CR-39 is even better optically than Spectralite, but
thicker than Spectralite, but you wife has a much weaker Rx than you, so it
sounds like it might work out OK.

[Mike Tyner]

Post by Ron M.
My wife and I are having a really bad problem with some new glasses we
ordered from JC Penney Optical. We got them there because we'd been

To me it sounds like your glasses were made right but the prescriptions were
both off a little, in the same direction. If each of you find your right and
left eyes equally blurry for roadsigns, I'd suspect something's amiss with the
refracting distance or equipment, or you encountered a doctor with an unusual
"prescribing philosophy".

Ask your doctor to show you the effect of an extra -0.50 with binocular trial
lenses over your glasses. It only takes five seconds. If trees look a lot
clearer, he or she may want to rewrite the prescription. All major retailers are
experienced making "doctor changes".

I wear my glasses 0.50 blurry in the distance because it makes my near vision
much better. Sometimes doctors will do this intentionally. Other doctors might
be afraid of providing full distance correction, thinking it might somehow
worsen your vision.

It isn't the material. Polycarb causes some color distortion in high
prescriptions, but never at the center. Polycarb can't make roadsigns blurry
straight ahead unless it's ground to the wrong prescription.

-MT

Post by Ron M.
My wife and I are having a really bad problem with some new glasses we
ordered from JC Penney Optical. We got them there because we'd been
ripped off and insulted by a rude Lenscrafters person, and also
because JCP had them for 50%. In addition, a relative worked there and
got us another 20% off.
To be specific, both glasses, mine and hers, were made EXACTLY
according to the optometrist's prescription. They were checked several
times, by two different opticians and by the optometrist, and all
three said they were made perfectly.
The problem is that our vision is actually worse with the new glasses.
For example, we stuck a printout of some text on the refrigerator
door. With our old glasses, we could read it 7-8 feet away. With the
new ones, we both had to come up to 4-5 feet. We've made numerous
other observations that were similar, or worse. Driving with them is
especially stressful: you can't even read a street sign until you're
right on top of it, and everything looks slightly "blurry."
Again, the problem is identical in both my and her glasses.
This is supposed to be some superhard, scratch-resistant polycarbonate
lens of some kind. My optometrist was baffled, and suggested that
perhaps there's some kind of distortion in the lens material.
Can anyone here offer any kind of advice, hypothesis, feedback, or
perhaps report a similar experience with JCP Optical? Having to get a
full refund on these, and starting all over somewhere else, is going
to be a huge, huge hassle.
Thanks,
Ron M.

[Otis Brown]

***@austin.rr.com (Ron M.) wrote in message news:<***@posting.google.com>...

Dear Ron,

Could you post the prescription? It will list the
lens power, and then the "astigmatism", which
is given as a power and an angle.

Some times the "astigmatism" is off, and perhaps they
reversed the measurement. That would cause considerable
visual distortion.

Best,

Otis
Engineer

Post by Ron M.
My wife and I are having a really bad problem with some new glasses we
ordered from JC Penney Optical. We got them there because we'd been
ripped off and insulted by a rude Lenscrafters person, and also
because JCP had them for 50%. In addition, a relative worked there and
got us another 20% off.
To be specific, both glasses, mine and hers, were made EXACTLY
according to the optometrist's prescription. They were checked several
times, by two different opticians and by the optometrist, and all
three said they were made perfectly.
The problem is that our vision is actually worse with the new glasses.
For example, we stuck a printout of some text on the refrigerator
door. With our old glasses, we could read it 7-8 feet away. With the
new ones, we both had to come up to 4-5 feet. We've made numerous
other observations that were similar, or worse. Driving with them is
especially stressful: you can't even read a street sign until you're
right on top of it, and everything looks slightly "blurry."
Again, the problem is identical in both my and her glasses.
This is supposed to be some superhard, scratch-resistant polycarbonate
lens of some kind. My optometrist was baffled, and suggested that
perhaps there's some kind of distortion in the lens material.
Can anyone here offer any kind of advice, hypothesis, feedback, or
perhaps report a similar experience with JCP Optical? Having to get a
full refund on these, and starting all over somewhere else, is going
to be a huge, huge hassle.
Thanks,
Ron M.